How I F*ck After a Double Mastectomy

NATALIE RIVERA: What’s your favorite part of your body? What do you admire about yourself, physically? For me, it’s got to be my breasts and my ass. Almost every person I’ve been with has complimented them, and while I don’t show them off much by wearing low-cut clothes or Tik Tok leggings, I do appreciate them, especially when they’re being played with in the bedroom. Now, what would you do if your favorite feature had the potential of making you deathly ill? Of giving you cancer? Would you remove it to prevent potentially battling a disease down the line? For Kelly Iverson, the answer was tragic but simple: 

KELLY IVERSON: F*ck that, like you can cut them off. I don't want this, you know, foreboding diagnosis over my head for the rest of my life.

NR: This is How I F*ck and I’m your host, Natalie Rivera. Breasts. Many love to play with them and many people with breasts love to have them played with. One study found that breasts can increase in size up to 25% when you’re aroused, potentially making them extra sensitive. In fact, studies show that nipple stimulation activates the same region of the brain as clitoral and vaginal stimulation. Which is probably why it’s no surprise that nipple stimulation was reported to enhance sexual arousal in 82% of women, including Kelly.

KI: If I was about to orgasm, all you had to do was, grab my breasts or pinch my nipples. And it was like done. They just were really, they just played a really large role in my satisfaction. In my sex life.

NR: Kelly is gorgeous and kind of a rebel. She has short reddish hair and tattoos all over one of her arms. A writer residing in LA, Kelly likes to post about how she’s embracing her wild side and her sexuality, two things she almost never did when she was younger.

KI: In high school, I remember there were sex ed classes, and I would normally skip out on them. And just do my time and take the detention because the thought of even discussing sex was, so grotesque to me.

NR: Why did you find it grotesque back then?

KI: I think I just didn't know really anything about it. I didn't even know what a penis looked like until literally, I drew one upside down. So you know, when people draw penises on desks like you don't really know which ways the top and the bottom so I remember I just drew a stick person and I drew the penis upside down. And my friends were like, “Why the f*ck did you draw it like that?” Like, what do you mean? Like, it's just a guy…so? I was probably a sophomore in high school when I figured that out, which thank god I did before a sexual encounter. Can you imagine if I was being intimate with someone and was like, “Whoa, your balls are like, not in the right place.” 

NR: So yeah, younger Kelly wasn’t, um...informed. She also was pretty set on falling in love and settling down. She had different priorities back then. 

KI: My first official boyfriend was when I was a junior in high school. And I was a dumb ass and I followed him to college. And I imagine this like incredibly boring life that we would have together. My mom recalls me actually telling her I can't wait to grow old with this person and do mundane things, like go grocery shopping, and go to the bank. And now those are like, my least favorite things to do as an adult. So I'm so happy that I had a shift in attitude as like, what will make me happy and as an adult, but yeah, I thought he was gonna be the one you know, he was my first everything.

NR: Because this was Kelly’s first relationship, she was a bit insecure. She was pretty sure her boyfriend had sex before, making her the least experienced of the two. 

KI: I literally knew nothing like I didn't even know how to properly kiss if you will. I remember tongue kissing. I was like googling like how to. So I was just really bad at everything or very inexperienced, not bad inexperienced. And I remember when we first started to get intimate, the very first time, I was just like, let's just skip everything and do it. Like no hand jobs. No, nothing. Like, let's just get straight to sex. Because I thought, you know, I didn't want to have so many new things happening at once. Let's just get this over with and I'll go home and Google, how to give a hand job later. I'll deal with that another time. So yeah, it was just intimidating. The fact that I thought, you know, he would be so mortified at my lack of experience, but it was fine. It was great. Sex life was great. I did learn how to do all this stuff in between having sex.

NR: They broke up right before college started, but they would still get together periodically the next three years. During that time, Kelly would have a string of one night-stands with other people. No new serious relationships, just fun. She still wasn’t vocal about what she wanted though and was still hesitant about exploring. 

KI: I think I was just, I don't know, I was just really insecure and didn't have a great body image. So I guess I was all about the mindset, or I guess I was in a mindset where as long as the person I was with was enjoying themselves I was enjoying myself as well, which is not the case anymore.

NR: This stopped being the case after college, though. Kelly, who went to school for journalism, wasn’t having much luck finding writing jobs in Kansas City at the time. As a journalist myself I can relate to that: starting a career in journalism can be difficult. 

KI: I went to go apply at the newspaper in Kansas City, and the only job that they had available at the time was like, I don't know if you've seen Nightcrawler with Jake Gyllenhaal, where he just rides around at night and looks for crime and writes about it. That was the only job he had available. And I was like, “F*ck that. I'm 20. I don't really want to ride around alone looking for crime in the middle of the night.” So my dad lived in Thailand when he was a teenager because his dad was a pilot. And I just remember him and his siblings speaking really highly of Thailand, of all the places they had ever lived. And so I was looking at Bangkok and there wasn't a whole lot written on the city. And so I thought, “Okay if there was anywhere that I could go and work as a travel writer and be successful, it would be Bangkok because it's such a big place. There’s so much to do there, and it just was really underreported.” So I moved there with the hopes of becoming a travel writer. 

NR: That's really cool. And I hope this doesn't seem, insulting or anything. But that was also kind of surprising given that you're telling me that you were insecure in some areas of your life. And so to do something like that, go to a different continent and work on something like that. That's really fearless.

KI: Yeah, it’s weird. I feel like my whole being is a big contradiction. If I go to restaurants with my friends, I'll be like, “Can you ask them for more ketchup?” And they're like, “Why? Like you lived in Asia alone for years and you can’t ask the waiter for extra ketchup.” It's just ridiculous. So in some ways, it was totally normal for me to do that, but then I'm intimidated by like, the most mundane things. So it doesn't make sense to me either. But I feel like a lot of my personality is very contradictory.

NR: It was in the busy streets of Thailand where Kelly started shedding her younger, reserved self only to make room for a more independent, outspoken Kelly. 

KI: I think there's something about that city that just like, it's just such a wild place. So I think when I was living there, I embraced that craziness in all aspects of my life. I guess it was then that I kind of was like, “Okay, I need to take this into my own hands.”

NR: Yeah, if you’re looking to reinvent yourself, then Thailand is a great choice. While I’ve never been to Thailand myself, I’ve heard from friends about how much activity there is there, and according to Kelly, there’s also a lot of sexualized activity. 

KI: I mean, sex is definitely in your face. I wouldn't say all the time, but like, a lot in Bangkok. You know, there are strip clubs. There are so many different sways, which are like alleyways that are just lined with topless bars and things like that. And it's totally acceptable and normal there. At least from like, a civilian perspective. And so I don't know if that had a part to play in it, like me coming into my own body and just being like, more comfortable with myself, but it was definitely, you know, it's so different than what you're seeing in Kansas, you know? So, yeah, it was just different.

NR: By then  Kelly was also more comfortable in her body, something that was a bit of a struggle for her growing up. You see, Kelly struggled a lot with disordered eating. The only part of her body that she really liked and that she didn’t mind getting bigger was her breasts. She adored her breasts. 

KI: I loved having them touch by others, and you know, by me, and yeah, they were just, they were great. I used to say, I used to refer to my breasts like breasts of steel. You could put so much pressure on them, and they wouldn't feel any pain. And not in a crazy like BDSM fashion. I just loved having them touched.

NR: Kelly was back in Kansas one year visiting for the holidays when her father shared some news with her and her sisters. His sister had reached out to him about a genetic mutation she had only just learned about that could be a key indicator if someone might develop breast cancer in their lifetime. Kelly’s grandmother had actually passed away from breast cancer when Kelly’s dad was around 21, and one of her aunts already had it, so her family were worried that Kelly and her sisters would have the gene mutation. They asked Kelly and her sisters to take a blood test that would screen for any mutation. This is known as the BRCA gene test.

KI: My older sister and I went to a genetic counselor when I was home. I remember at the time thinking, like, there's no way I have it because I am a replica of my mother, like, in the way we look, the way we act, and my sister is a lot more similar to my dad. So I thought, okay, if one of us is gonna have it surely it's her. 

NR: So a little bit about the BRCA test and these gene mutations. Everyone is born with two BRCA genes or Breast Cancer genes. They are BRCA-1 and BRCA-2. Contrary to these names, these genes don’t give you breast cancer, they kind of help you fight it. They are tumor suppressor genes that help prevent cells like breast and ovarian from growing and dividing rapidly, and pretty much-causing trouble. Some people however are born gene mutations that prevent these genes from doing their jobs successively. Those who carry a BRCA mutation are thought to have a 45-to-80 % risk of developing breast cancer in their lifetime. People with a history of breast cancer in the family, like Kelly, are encouraged to take this screening.

KI: I went back to Bangkok. And I didn't have my results back yet. And I remember telling the genetic counselor like if I do test positive for this mutation, please tell me via email or voicemail, because I don't want you to call me and then I have to wait 12 hours to hear from you because of the time difference, or like, what if she calls me on a Friday and then I have to wait all weekend. So I just told her if it's positive, if it's negative, just tell me on my voicemail, or via email. I remember I was coming out of a yoga class and I had a voicemail from her. And she didn't f*cking tell me my results and I was like, “This b*tch,” but I knew right then that it was positive because if it had been negative she would have said that in the voicemail. So I called her back and thankfully, she picked up right away but yeah, it was positive for the BRCA-1 genetic mutation. And my sister didn’t have it.

NR: She took the train back home, bawling. And if you’ve ever been on a Bangkok train you’ll know that they are rarely empty. 

KI: I’m shoulder to shoulder and just sitting there crying unapologetically. And in Thailand, it's really big not to lose face. So like, me being upset was probably upsetting for people there.

NR: Kelly went to see a breast specialist shortly after that. The specialist felt a lump in her left breast and requested an MRI. They found three tumors, so they requested an ultrasound to see if they were benign, meaning not cancerous. 

KI: They were able to draw material or however you say it from to the tumors, but one was so deep that I had to do an additional MRI-guided biopsy. And this is all happening in Bangkok and it was just really intimidating. You know, I remember going into my MRI-guided biopsy and they had this needle like the size of my head. And I was like, “Okay, so wait, can someone walk me through this and no one in the room spoke English and it was just super intimidating to have like no direction or guidance as to “Okay, we're gonna do this,” and I remember being so upset and they were all so sweet. Rubbing my shoulders, and they didn't know what I was saying. I don't know what they were saying. But it was then that I was like, “I need to get this preventative surgery because I can't f*cking do this.” This is too much. The biopsies, the doctor visits, I was having to pay for everything up front and then work with my insurance to get the money back. And it was like costing thousands of dollars. And I was just so over it. So I decided then that I would go home and have the preventative double mastectomy.

NR: Prophylactic mastectomy or preventive mastectomy is a procedure that involves surgically removing all breast tissue. The procedure is meant to help avoid any future cancers in the breasts. According to the National Cancer Institute, women who carry BRCA1 or BRCA2 gene mutation and have a preventive mastectomy may be able to reduce their risk of developing breast cancer by 95%. So Kelly knew the best option for her was to have both breasts removed, soon.

KI: There was a little bit of urgency because my dad's health insurance was wonderful. So he was working for the government at the time and I knew these surgeries were going to be hella expensive, and that some sh*tty travel insurance wasn't going to be like, “Yeah, we'll pay you for this massive surgery and for reconstruction.” So I was 25 and I was going to be kicked off my parent's insurance when I was 26 in November. So when I found out I had the mutation in January, I wasn't, you know, sold on the preventative surgery. But then just taking that into consideration as well, I decided it was the right time for me to do that.

NR: When did you decide that you wanted to also have reconstructive surgery and how did you come to that decision? Or was it a no-brainer?

KI: So there was a little part of me that wanted to stay flat. Just to be like, f*ck it like why would I put these foreign things into my body to aesthetically look a certain way because I've lost all sensation in my breasts, so they would be purely for aesthetic reasons. But you know, the more I met with my surgeon and saw the implants, I just thought, “I'm already losing like a big a large part of myself. And if the implants will give me a little bit of like what I used to have, I'll take them, you know.”

NR: Kelly went back home to have the surgery done. As you can imagine, there was a lot going through her mind at this time. She was exhausted from the doctor’s appointments, the travel, the constant conversations revolving around this surgery. She wanted to enjoy her breasts one last time before the surgery, so she went on Tinder. 

KI: I was in the mindset of like, I'm gonna lose all feeling of my breasts, I'm gonna lose all these wonderful sensations that I love so much, I don't have a significant other. And I really want to enjoy them with another person. Now, I am in such a good place that I would do that solo and not seek out another person to give me that pleasure. But at the time, I was like, “Okay, I'm just gonna start swiping and see what I get.”

NR: Usually, when you match with someone cute on Tinder you’ll send them a nice “Hello, how are you,” or if you’re like me you’ll draft an opening line that references something they have in their bio. Kelly, however, at this moment went a whole different direction. She was on a mission after all. 

KI:  I just told him like, “Look, I'm having this surgery, and I kind of just want to have sex with someone and enjoy my breasts and still feel them. Are you down for that? And he was so sweet. He was like, “Yeah, I'd love to take you to dinner.” Meanwhile, I'm like, you know, “Let's f*ck.” He took me to this really nice vegan restaurant in downtown Kansas City. And he was so sweet. And yeah, and then we went back to his place and we had sex. 

NR: As you might have predicted the sex was kind of emotional. 

KI: Oh, my God, I just feel bad for him. I was like, so emotional. And always on the verge of crying just because it was, you know, the last hurrah. I was, internally saying my goodbyes, and was always on the verge of tears. 

NR: Do you feel like he did all the things that you yourself have always enjoyed when it came to your breasts?

KI: Yes, and no. Like I kind of mentioned before, I wish I would have found that pleasure internally. And just done the things that I know and love myself, you know, instead of putting that on another person for one, because that's such a daunting task. But, you know, like you said, we met for the first time and it was like, “Let’s do this.” Like how could he know what I liked and what I didn't? So I think I gave him direction. I just know, as much as I can't give you specifics, I can tell you wholeheartedly, I needed that. And I know that sounds… it could sound bad. I don't know what it sounds like, but it really felt like closure for me.

NR: The day of the surgery finally arrived and Kelly’s anxiety was understandably turned up a couple notches. She wasn’t entirely sure yet whether she’d be waking up with the implants or if she would wake up to only have to do another procedure shortly. 

KI: So I did have breasts when I woke up, which was like, “Yay,” and then that's when it kind of sunk in and like, obviously, everything hurt. And yeah, it was just alot. And I actually ended up going back to work the day after my surgery because I couldn't deal with what I knew I needed to deal with emotionally and physically. And so I just sat with my little lap desk in my bed and did mundane kind of brainless work. And so I would say that the emotional aspect of what had happened hit me like a few weeks later, when I was like, “Holy sh*t. Like, my breasts are gone.”

NR: How else did she feel like when it hit you? What are the thoughts going through your head?

KI: Like I had mentioned, and I'm trying to be more open about it, but I had an eating disorder for a very long time. And I have never really liked my body, you know, so I just thought this is gonna be terrible. Lik how am I going to deal with this? I couldn't even deal with my body back then? And now I have this huge scar and my breasts are hard as a rock. At that time they were really ripley. So the implant didn't fit the pocket as best as it could. So I had like, I just called ripples like ripples in the top of my breasts and it was just really unsightly. And I just remember being like, “Oh sh*t, like, this is gonna send me into a spiral in regards to my confidence and my body image because it was already like really not good. And then to have them look the way that they did and just feel, you know, not good and just feel like really heavy and they didn't look good. And I was really worried about my mental state. I started seeing a therapist, which I should have done way earlier in the process. But yeah, it wasn't fun. And it's still a struggle. It's been two f*cking years and like, I've like lowkey been about to cry this whole interview. When I initially had my surgery, it was like, this is gonna bring me down every day, or I'm gonna think about this every day and it's gonna disrupt my daily life at some point every day, and it doesn't. You know, I'm two years out and weeks will go by, and then I'll be like, “Oh my god, I had this life-changing thing happened to me.” You know, I'm so happy that I did it. And took my health into my own hands. And I realize how lucky I am to take those preventative measures and, and all that, but it does get easier, you know?

NR: The next six months consisted of resting, therapy, and prepping for two more surgeries for her implants which Kelly wasn’t too fond of when she first got them. Kelly got to keep her nipples but the rest of her new breasts seemed so foreign to her. They were so hard and didn’t feel natural to her and, she presumed, her sexual partners moving forward. 

KI: I was just like, I don't even care. Like I'm never gonna touch them. If they don't have feeling you know? So to me, it felt like if I got an implant that felt more realistic, it would be for someone else. And I was like, I'm not doing that. So I got the gel implants. They do look fake, and they're really hard. They're like hard as a rock. But they look good. And I don't have that rippling anymore. Not as bad anyway, so I'm happy with my decision to have the additional surgeries to make them look like you know, as best as they can.

NR: It was between one of these new surgeries that Kelly went to a friend's wedding and met a guy, a cute guy. Kelly hadn’t planned to flirt that night— she wasn’t too happy with her body, and keep in mind she wasn’t excited with how her breasts looked like yet. But this guy was funny, charming and danced with her for most of the night. 

KI: The next thing I knew we are going home together. And I was like, holy sh*t. What is this sexual encounter gonna look like? Like, do I tell him now in the car, like, what do I do? And I think I, you know, at that point, like, we had all been drinking quite a lot. We got an Uber to where we are going. But I was so incredibly relieved. He didn't care at all. Like, he didn't even blink when I told him like, “Oh, I've had the surgery, and like, don't touch my breasts and maybe don't look at them because they look a little bit funky.” Like, he was like, okay, and I think it was at that point where I was like, oh, my god, like, like, people just don't care. Like, I care a lot, but other people don't. And I am so grateful for him for making me realize that and yeah, that was, again, another really special first time for me and that encounter, and that whole evening will just have a really special place in my heart because I remember just dreading being alone and naked in front of this person. And it was totally fine. And it like it didn't matter at all. And, you know, it was just a friendly reminder that the only person bringing me down in that sense was me. And like, nobody else cares. So I just need to care less. 

NR: This encounter made future sexual experiences a little less daunting for Kelly. She started writing about her double mastectomy, and also her lifetime struggle with her body image. It became kind of therapeutic for her. She also started looking for new ways to stimulate herself, since touching her breasts isn’t something she enjoys anymore. 

KI:  It's kind of like nails on a chalkboard where if someone touched my breasts, it's just like, “Oh, I hate it!” Because there's no sensation there. It's uncomfortable. And sometimes I'll try and work through it, because I think that the person I'm with will enjoy touching my breasts, but I've just…. not given up but I'm like, "I'm not going to make myself uncomfortable so that they can maybe enjoy themselves a little bit more. And to be honest, I don't think that the people I've been with intimately enjoy touching them, because like I mentioned, they're really hard. And they move a little bit more now, but they don't really move either. So I can imagine, it's kind of weird for them to, and if I'm sitting there like ahhh, I don't think anyone's enjoying it. So I wouldn't say it's like a precursor, but I don't touch my breasts, other people don't touch my breasts. And, you know, hopefully, that changes.  It forced me to explore different ways in which I could feel pleasure. So you know, I guess I just want to say like, just because you've lost sensation or feeling in one body part, you'll find it somewhere else, you just need to find someone you're comfortable enough with to be like, “Hey, stick a thumb up my ass.” 

NR: No but really: butt play. That’s one of the new things she’s picked up post-mastectomy. 

KI: Prior to my surgery, like, I never use lubes or any toys. And now like, I have a whole drawer full because I'm like, “Ooh what is this?” You know, just finding other ways to stimulate me because I lost the biggest thing that made me feel good. I can't reiterate enough that like, my breasts for me were like, the most pleasurable part of a sexual encounter, and not having that really forces you to explore. So I have different dildos and butt plugs. And like, all these different moves, and, you know, it's kind of fun to explore. And I still think I'm learning about my body and what it is that I like, and it's kind of been nice with a pandemic, to do that by myself. And then, you know, down the line when everyone gets their vaccine, and we're all safe to go out and date again, like, I am so excited to be with someone and have a checklist of sh*t that I know that I like. 

NR: Kelly is no longer the quiet girl or sexual partner she used to be. It took many years to get here but she’s finally made it. Living her life with zero f*cks to give and a drawer full of toys. 

KI: Now I'm in a place where I'm like, I'm gonna f*cking tell them whenever I want. Like I could sit down at a blind date and be like, “Hi, I had a preventative double mastectomy. And also my name is Kelly,” and like, that would be fine. Or I could wait like a year and tell him that, you know, so it's nice to be in a place mentally where some of those concerns are no longer, but yeah, I mean, there are still days where I'm like, not happy with them. Like a lot of days, I'm happy with them because I know that my lifetime risk of breast cancer is less than one percent versus over 90. But yeah, it's still it still sucks, you know.

NR:  Kelly, thank you so much, again, for speaking with me. I really appreciate it. Especially on a Wednesday evening. Where can people find you?

KI: They can find me on Instagram. I think I think you actually follow me on Instagram. So you're welcome to share that handle if you'd like.

NR: Kelly’s handle is kellyjeaniverson. Make sure to follow her and also check out her amazing articles. 

NR: Thank you for listening to How I F*ck. If you like our podcast, give us a rating, leave us a review. Tell a friend. And please, subscribe if you haven’t already. Also, if you have a micropenis and would like to be interviewed for the show email us at hello@howifckpodcast.com or send us a dm on Instagram or Twitter. Our handles are at howickpodcast, that’s “How I F*ck,” without the “u” so “fck.” We also have a website, howifckpodcast.com, again without the “u.” There you can find all of our episodes as well as show notes, transcriptions, sources, and photos. How I F*ck is produced by me, Natalie Rivera. I’m also the host and creator. Ben Quiles is our audio engineer. Shyanne Lopez did copy and fact check. Original music by Miguel Gutierrez. You can find more of his music online under the artist name Magh. Gabriela Sanchez is our Social Media Manager and our Sponsorship Manager is Mouna Coulibaly. Until next time!